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Thread: cure disease

  1. #1

    Default cure disease

    since neutral was removed UA clerics should get this. UA clerics suck for the most part so I can't see the harm
    Last edited by Tynian; March 7th, 2011 at 06:04 PM.

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    UA clerics are supposed to suck, since they theoretically get their abilities from a patron deity.

    I think that it was perhaps a mistake to give Neutral cure disease, and now that there are no Neutral followings, the error has been corrected.
    Last edited by Tynian; February 23rd, 2011 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Cleaned up grammar

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tynian View Post
    now that there are no Neutral followings, the error has been corrected
    haha! I'm glad I'm not the only one who solves problems in this way.

  4. #4

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    *pout*

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    So...we either have to figure out how to like EVERY imm/following (with so many to choose from, at that), or not play our clerics if we want to not suck as a cleric?
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  6. #6

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    I don't like it when worship is taken lightly, but if UA clerics are too limited people will worship for the sake of the spells without really buying into a following.

    Perhaps there could be a way for UA clerics to earn some favour with Ivorytiger, Maurice and Madman to power their spells? Shrines could go up in NC, SC and Frontier that ua clerics need to spend x ticks out of safe in to earn, or there could be religious relics to the retired Implementors that function similar to scores, each giving a limited number of casts of certain spells? It probably couldn't be too hard though, or the effect of followings being joined just for convenience would still exist.

    These spells could be limited to a small set of spells - heal or curse might be too powerful, for example. Cure Disease strikes me as a reasonable one though, if only so newbies disease in the guild have more options for help.

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    I'm with Pitt. I -HATE- when someone joins a following for spells alone. You're not joining to be a part of it, you're just using an aura flag because your character needs it to be playable. That, is incredibly lame, nevermind counteractive to the point of it all anyway (imo).

    I was also thinking UA devotion should be moved to Tynian over IvoryTiger, and a range of affects that are in the positive side still say Ivorytiger...like when you're protected from 'dispel evil'. Likewise, Maurice would take over protecting the UA from 'Dispel good'...(maybe it should be vice versa? More like IT and Maurice getting upset at the caster for not using the spell properly on the other alignment?

    I'm not saying they shouldn't have a required...something...to get the spells. Maybe the class has a quick flag set to it that can be altered by god+? If they worship an FLI the 'devotion' flag is auto set, but a UA warric has to PROVE devotion to the forces of creation to get some of the cleric spells usable as a UA (thus, they quest with a god+, god+ can set the 'devotion' flag on them, and they are marked as a UA devoted to Tynian's creator power). Such a flag would also re-set when you DO get an alignment, so that when you leave that following, you once more have to 'quest for your devotion' until another following comes along worth worshipping.

    As -well- this would give god+ an option to enforce certain standards (at least on warrics) of alignment. IE, if a good cleric is seen helping too many evil people and can not give a good reason for it ('I'm trying to show them the light of good with kindness' 'they are still a former brother of mine till I see them do evil' etc...at least have SOME reason, it's part of why char sep is becoming a touchy subject), the god+ can deem they are acting against their alignment and punish them for it. ((how handy would such an ability have been with past followings abusing aspects of code intentionally *cough* DawnBringers *cough* and acting evil before the god+ had enough reason to force the entire alignment to change?)).

    As well, that could also be an easy alert to an FLI that one of their followers is 'two-facing' or having absurdly horrid char sep they might not agree with (or want in their following) and be able to take care of it themselves (since an FLI is not on 24/7 and often doesn't know EVERYTHING their people do at all hours, and some care more than others)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belsambar View Post
    So...we either have to figure out how to like EVERY imm/following (with so many to choose from, at that), or not play our clerics if we want to not suck as a cleric?
    Uh, NO. You just have to figure out how to like ONE imm/following. It's up to you whether to play an unaligned cleric.

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    Right, I could understand that if we had more followings....but as low as we're at, it goes back to what Pitt said about people following just to have spells, rather than to be in the following...and no imm is going to force the issue these days, they all want whatever activity they can get.

    I could see this being less of an issue when there were the number of followings in 2000...but not everyone can get along with or put up with everyone else, and only having three people to choose from...what if someone really doesn't get along with Iso, Boro, OR Lycron? They have to suck it up? That's why I tend to stay UA, I'll admit, not that I couldn't get along, or that I don't...but I don't like any of the three followings going so much for most of my chars. Some of these are personal reasons, some aren't...but I don't think it's fair that UA clerics should be SO limited in comparison. Yes, they shouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as an aligned cleric....but they shouldn't be so much weaker that people are -that- much less likely to play them, or find them at all useful...UA cleric as a flavor choice is fine, but they should still be a viable class, if not as awesome as aligned.
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    Caring.... caring.... caring.... don't care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitt View Post
    I don't like it when worship is taken lightly, but if UA clerics are too limited people will worship for the sake of the spells without really buying into a following.
    Like they don't already.

    Cure disease isn't the difference between a mortal worshiping just for spells and "buying into" a following. I just don't see it.

    But, alright. I guess I'm just being grumpy. Discuss away. I'll try to restrain myself from further comment on this idea.

  12. #12

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    Agree 100% that they do already, and cure disease won't be the deciding factor either way. I just thought this seemed an appropriate place to raise the point and suggest a couple options that might make it less of a problem.

    In the end, experienced players know the drawbacks to UA before they create a cleric , and newbies will probably gravitate towards joining a following regardless of whether there are ways to have more spells available for UA clerics, so it doesn't seem like a critical issue. There are some fun possibilities for extending the way they're handled, but they're not really broken as is IMO.

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    It's not about 'cure disease' being a 'why'. Heal for other people, and bless, and plenty others are a 'why'.

    All I'm saying, is UA clerics should have a way to 'earn' SOME mid-level cleric spells. Not the big ones, like curse, harm, heal, bless, dispells....but the lesser ones - cure disease, protections, cure critical on others. I don't see this being 'unbalancing' or even so much 'game changing'. It doesn't make it so you are 'better off' being UA. It might, however, make it so you can at least xp with people and adventure a little more without being so completely nerfed. As well, it gives people a reason to go good because they WANT to be good,rather than for a couple spells that are all they really wanted.

    We've made people who want to be 'neutral' in storyline be forced to be UA. Ok, fine. I don't think we should absolutely force a cleric to need alignment for so many things. Maybe this can go along with altering 'protection spells' so it's one, OR the other (I realize this affects certain pills in game, and don't feel that should be a reason). These little things make a UA cleric that much more playable, and perhaps even desirable in certain situations, without making it so they have no reason to go for an alignment for benefits. Yes, people will still join Nexus just because it's the only way they hcan dispel evil and righteous assault, and people will still join Lyc/Iso just so they can harm/curse/dispel good...but THOSE should be the reasons for deciding alignment. Not the 'lesser' spells. Not when there's so little to choose from and we want to entice people to play the game within the rules their way...not be forced into doing something that isn't right for the character they are playing/portraying or gamestyle/playstyle just because it's the only way to not be screwed out of some of the more useful (and in case of cure disease the way it's getting more rampant, and we're all saying we want more of it...we only have 1 source of clerics for cures, which may make them more desirable, but jeez...ONLY Nexus? Really?) but lesser spells.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tynian View Post
    Caring.... caring.... caring.... don't care.
    And sorry, Belsambar. I was being a jerk about this. Although this whole thread has struck me poorly, I should have reacted better.

    I've given myself a stern talking to.

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    Yeah...you made me think I made you angry by suggesting you're egotistical (I extrapolated farther than I needed to) or that you were mad at me for suggesting we switch that to you and you want to be shy...or something lol

    ...wouldn't it be cool for all the UA's to be sacrificing everything in the name of the Founder though? Shouldn't dwarven clerics be able to get some spells in deference to the great Founder as a UA? Just sayin'...it's your game and all, ultimately...I don't think it'd be so bad to have some more things IN the game to say that without actually changing too much as things are :P
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by pitt View Post
    experienced players know the drawbacks to UA before they create a cleric , and newbies will probably gravitate towards joining a following regardless
    A category of UA clerics I forgot about is older characters whose immortals have retired, and could be faced with joining a following they feel doesn't really fit, to retain their spells. I can see this being much more of an issue for these than newly created clerics.

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    Which are what I'm actually more getting on about here, Pitt.

    I don't think it's fair to expect people to completely change a char's story or personality, or roll a whole new char just because.
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  18. #18

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    (cough) rebirth (cough)

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eathor View Post
    (cough) rebirth (cough)
    I don't have anything against the rebirth idea as an option but I'd hate it to be the only way to keep an old character relevant. The thought of having to xp to 50 again makes me cringe.

    It also doesn't address the problem of an established character who does not fit with any current following. So the old UA cleric rebirths a new UA cleric, they're still UA and if they're playing the same character, they still don't fit a current following.

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    Rebirth is NOT making an old char relevant. It's re-rolling your char and keeping your 50 gear. Honestly, in that alone, I'm not sure I support it so much.

    UNLESS Chars that have rerolled are allowed to possess old restrings and items from older versions of themselves as well.
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