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Thread: Trains

  1. #1

    Default Trains

    I think there should be another way to get trains. Specifically, 1 train for every 168 rl hours spent on tfc.

    As you spend time in the realm you become more intelligent, you get stronger, faster, etc.... You may even aquire a sense of style that improves you charismatic presence.

    For me this is a solution for the older characters that did not bother training con or chr, or even int and wis for that matter. The eldest generation of our characters are at a disadvantage. If they continue putting in time they should have a way to get those trains.

    -Morgaine
    Last edited by Tynian; February 24th, 2011 at 09:23 AM.

  2. #2

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    oh yeah, having extra trains around means they could be used as a component of the ancient shards idea that is being considered.

  3. #3

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    Or as part of the "levelling past 30" idea. Every (x) amount of exp, you get a % chance of getting small hp/mana gains AND a train (can't remember all the details from the other thread). I'm just not too keen on the idea that you have guaranteed trains after a certain amount of time.

    If I had the patience, I could make a char, level them until my stats stop fluctuating, then just sit around afw to wrack up tons of trains.

  4. #4
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    I like this idea. Not because I need them, more because others do (though it'd be really funny to see my hours converted to trains...that'd presently be 41.3333333... trains...3484 years old at 6944 hours). I'd say go for char age though. 500 years....250? (Happy birthday! You get a training session!) Also makes older chars have a reason to stick around, as well, the ancient shards thing, if requiring trains as a component piece, with trains for time based play in game, would mean that those with some stupid amounts of extra trains to use (Like Darius, or Bel) could use THOSE (since we can't sell to those who need them...) to generate the 'artifact legend items'. Thus a really lucky char could generate one with the shards and all else, the older chars should get some trains for time spent, so they'd have some to burn, and if you've got less than a few hundred hours in the game, do you deserve to be able to generate something like that (without the trains?)? Either you have em from levelling, or you have them from time spent, very few would have from both. (I would like to point out Linkin, at #1 on xprank, has less than half the time online as Bel, as do most others. I guess the lower hours wouldn't be TERRIBLE, just seems funny to me, though I have total online time more like an FLI...heh)
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    Trains on levelling past 30 has been shot down so many times Pein....don't remind them of it, or tie this to it, and it may finally get something implemented to help fix 2.x and old 3.x chars :P

    ((Again, I would like to point out, this does almost nothing to benefit me personally, on any char, because I have no old 2.x or 3.x chars that were screwed over like some of the others would be, or are....I started in 2000, and I got really, really lucky with my early chars, they actually don't need the help. I just wanted to point out that's NOT why I'm supporting it so much))
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  6. #6

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    how about a mob/shopkeeper: "the personal trainer" , and you have to pay a lot of gold for training sessions. That would make more sense.

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    Or pay a lot of gold to train without trains at trainers as is.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Belsambar View Post
    Or pay a lot of gold to train without trains at trainers as is.
    Interesting

  9. #9

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    I know with what belsambar said 41 trains seems like a lot but belsambar is also his main focus and created ten years ago... so I guess at an average of 1 full month logged into tfc per year thats like 4 trains per year.... and he is highly active to achieve that average of about 13 playing hours a week over ten years.

  10. #10

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    I like mugens idea of being able to train your stats with gold instead of a training session but to make it a little more interesting I would have a different personal trainer for each stat.

  11. #11
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    I've always been in favor of SOME way to get trains other than levelling. Personally I'd go in for the ideas mugen and kylor proposed - 1 or 2mil per train, specific trainers for each stat you want to pay to train etc. I'm not as big of a fan of the time-based thing only because I think it would encourage people to sit around afk in guild in order to put time on a character to gain training sessions. I'd rather see people have to actively do SOMETHING in order to be able to train. By the same token, I think this would help with true newbies coming into the realm - usually new characters don't get their stats right the first time they roll a character, and when a veteran tells them to start over they just quit. It'd be better to be able to say, don't worry about it now eventually you can fix it you'll just have to gold a little more later on.

  12. #12

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    I agree with avarice.

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    So have it based off 'out of safe' time. I don't know what I'm at, but the game already has a way to track it. I don't know how the backdating would work, but if there's an upper end limit on what the game recognizes for active time in the backdating, then really old chars could just get a 'grandfathered' amount "You're older than our records can date...here's 10 trains for being a loyal player this long" and have to get out of safe time to grow new trains.

    That ties into Morg's original point, as you wander the game you gain experience and training from practice and use. If you're safe sitting, you're not getting practice, training, or skill use (aside from a few skills). Maybe in safe time can count at 1/20th of out of safe time. Thus if you're going to just sit afk in safe for trains, it's going to take you a while. A long while. Better off getting out of safe time in 5 minute spurts, you'll still get a train as fast if you spend 5 mins out of safe while online as sitting in safe for 100 minutes...

    Addendum: regardless, they add up to the same train, just at different values...not an 'out of safe train' and an 'in safe train'. Rewards online time and general activity on an incredibly minor basis, and rewards out of safe time in a tangible manner, even if you can only login once a month for 5 minutes (certainly can't hold onto lims like that)
    Last edited by Belsambar; February 18th, 2011 at 02:53 PM. Reason: addendum at the end...
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    Oh yeah, and there's very few mortals that have anywhere near my total time. In safe or out of safe. I'm an extreme case over 10 years. In activity, time spent, character longevity. I'm aware of that :P
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  15. #15

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    I wouldnt grandfather it in for older characters.... just let everybody start earning them from the time that something like this was implemented, i.e. no trains for past time spent. If characters are active they will eventually even out with the rest.

    The reason I don't like a 1-2mil charge is that with the greater availability of eq is will be less and less likely for a character to not max out their stats. the 1-2mil gold charge still sort of punishes the older characters that need trains over the younger characters that don't need trains.

    It is fair to charge everybody a fee every time they train... that I could get behind. Maybe 25k a shot?

  16. #16

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    25k? Seriously? That's chicken feed. I'd say upwards of 5 mil per train, IF it were to happen. I'm certainly not in favor of just time spent online. But, I don't really like the idea in general. What ever happened to working hard at a character and being proud of it? Is hard work really that bad these days? So your FIRST character isn't perfect...try again!

  17. #17
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    I just don't see why the push to leave chars behind because code makes them obsolete. So nobody is ever expected to have an older char survive for long periods of time unless they thought of every possible application and angle so the character could never have such an opportunity to become obsolete? Sure, I managed it with Bel, maybe, time will tell...and I'm not saying people SHOULDN'T make new chars under new rules...but should someone be punished for doing an excellent job under really really old guidelines, and sticking around because they LOVE playing the char? Should they really have to delete, and start all over on every achievement they've done with it...just because version changes have been so radical, so extreme, compared to when the character was built, that in modern gameplay, it just can't cut it without a HUGE handicap? As well, maybe they DID work hard at the char. Maybe they ARE proud of the char, and THAT is why they'd like to salvage it.

    As well, Morg was saying 25k to train with trains period, I believe, if you're going to add a cost of anything like millions a train.

    Conversely, I feel 5million is asking a bit much. No, gold isn't hard to grind if you're good at it, but damn...it still takes time. I'm an ACTIVE person and I've only ever collected up TO 3.5 mill on my own at any point. Yeah, sure I spend it, but hell, if you don't, there's no economy, and why not have it. Regardless, that took 2 -years- to do it solo at the level I was at.

    Granted, as a 45-50 class character, yes, it's bloody easier. Is it 'easy' or 'quick' to collect even 1 mill gold? Uhhh. No. I'm sorry, but the only reason I view a -simple- as worth 5 mill is because it's +9-13 stats to a given set in one item, bought with gold. That makes sense.

    A single train? Or stat up? For an old char? Or any char? The more you need, the more you have to gold, even at 1 mil. Even if you can generate 1 mill over 100 hours of gameplay without needing to spend any of it inside 2 months (that's roughly 1.6 hours a day, every day, figuring most people need to regen, go to the bathroom, spell up a newbie, etc.), that's a lot of gold...and most people aren't necessarily ABLE to be that active...how many people actually log in EVERY day, 7 days a week, 365? Not I, not most anyone else I see on 'who'.

    I'm also trying to figure out why all any of what's been suggested is supposed to be 'easy work'. In a LOT of the scenarios more plausibly outlined, it'd actually be a hell of a lot EASIER (nevermind cheaper?) to start a new char from scratch and say 'R.I.P.' to the old one...and yet people are STILL going to go through the dedication and effort and put the HARD WORK forth to generate gold on large quantity scale to rescue an old legendary hero (or villain) into new glory days? Seems like a way to reward someone for hard work (nevermind dedication to the game) to me.

    And that whole time they're doing it, mind you, they have to hack at it and make it work with whatever handicap they're working with, whether it be 5 trains the char needs, or 25 (and I want to point out, the people who want to salvage old chars in some cases need 25-40 trains to max anything but DEX and STR, because of how the game was once focused on build for a standpoint of 40)
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    25k? Seriously? That's chicken feed. I'd say upwards of 5 mil per train, IF it were to happen. I'm certainly not in favor of just time spent online. But, I don't really like the idea in general. What ever happened to working hard at a character and being proud of it? Is hard work really that bad these days? So your FIRST character isn't perfect...try again!
    You misunderstood me. I suggested characters pay 25k when they train. Not 25k for extra trains. Also, I suspect that people like Kail are quite proud of their early characters, and that is why they choose to play them even though they have other eff 50 characters with better stats. Everybody gets max stats these days, becasue anyone can wear +60 in stat effects with pit gear. It is the people that leveled at a time that it weas difficult to have +40 in stat gear that are now at a lack of trains... because they didn't pile luck on, and because it didnt seem neccessary to train int/wis/con/chr because it didn't effect their game play after leveling.

    Your suggestion of charging our most dedicated players 5million gold per train, to fix characters that are +10 trains down hardly seems like the way we should be treating our player base. (I would rather see nothing done then something so insulting). Yeah, sure, they can go make a new character.... or we can try to do something to show some gratitude for the efforts they have put in well over a decade ago, and their committment to tfc in proof that they still exist today.

    -Morgaine

    PS: I believe my proposal is in line with the HP bonus that was given to 2x characters many years ago.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgaine View Post
    You misunderstood me. I suggested characters pay 25k when they train. Not 25k for extra trains. Also, I suspect that people like Kail are quite proud of their early characters, and that is why they choose to play them even though they have other eff 50 characters with better stats. Everybody gets max stats these days, becasue anyone can wear +60 in stat effects with pit gear. It is the people that leveled at a time that it weas difficult to have +40 in stat gear that are now at a lack of trains... because they didn't pile luck on, and because it didnt seem neccessary to train int/wis/con/chr because it didn't effect their game play after leveling.

    Your suggestion of charging our most dedicated players 5million gold per train, to fix characters that are +10 trains down hardly seems like the way we should be treating our player base. (I would rather see nothing done then something so insulting). Yeah, sure, they can go make a new character.... or we can try to do something to show some gratitude for the efforts they have put in well over a decade ago, and their committment to tfc in proof that they still exist today.

    -Morgaine

    PS: I believe my proposal is in line with the HP bonus that was given to 2x characters many years ago.

    Sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were suggesting being able to buy extra trains at 25k a piece. I see your point.

  20. #20

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    alright thanks, sorry if i came off as rude.... and yeah, 25k for trains would be absurd.

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