Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 41

Thread: Durgan the consignment broker

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    Likewise, it allows people with randoms to put things up for sale for the people who need them. People can list some basic randoming gear and bigger players can check on their own for newbies.

    If people wanted to be nice. Really, it'd just be nice to be able to find a luck item someone has I can freakin' BUY rather than trade, if my char needs one. Gold has no value because people don't want to spend it, and don't want to take gold FOR items, just trade for other items.

    THE OTHER WAY this gives gold value, is allowing out market to get a spread and actually HAVE some 'supply and demand'. Right now, if you have a really really nice (+7? +9?) combo item, you might be willing to sell it for gold, even at the value you think you should get for it, the problem is (echoing what Eathor said) finding the people who need it and are willing to pay what you want for it. Sure, you can list if on forums...but here's something to chew on. Everyone on forums plays TFC. Not everyone who plays TFC is on forums. With this, you can list it up, put a price to it, and look, lo and behold....someone ELSE has the same item (or similar) ??? Well...maybe you can try to undercut their price. Maybe not.

    If nothing else, there can be no economy if there's no generalized 'price value' attributed. Once upon a time, a 3dmg sold for 80k. Now people won't pay 15k for one unless they need it or it has awesome AC or something...but even then, it wasn't that 3dmg was 'rarer' so much as the people who had the most of them, would 'set' the price. You want it? Then you'll pay 100k for it. Think it's too expensive? Too bad. Sure, you can buy that one for 50k, someone else will need this one eventually (what of that behavior there was that was NOT storage chars but actual merchanting HAS been almost entirely killed off by Mish, though I will not argue that we needed to dump the storage chars...we did). If you're seeing that so and so has 15 nm 3dmg leathers listed at 50k and you need 3 of them...you're going to work at generating 150k for them to buy them. Auctions, often by the time you know what you need to buy it, the auction is over, and you have to HOPE something goes up like that again.

    ...and just to point it out an extra time...what good is having money when nothing has a price tag (Hmm. I don't like you. 5mill.). This also allows the market to have some function and flow devoid of alignment bs (especially if you anonymize somewhat who is selling what). I see a lot of eq circulation that could happen that doesn't just because 'I don't want this to go to blues' or 'I don't want the reds to use this'...which also ends up creating storage chars as when people that that too far, they'll have a friend make a newbie, or some other stupid-such lame thing, and dump the eq on them to 'keep it out of the blue's hands'. The more eq has circuit, flow, turnover, and availability, the less and less people will care about 'losing' stuff and the more willing they'll be to risk their gear, whether in pvp, or by taking on dragons and not worrying about etch.
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

  2. #22

    Default

    Yeah, I agree with a lot of this. The main point is that it creates one mudwide functional list of available equipment. Anyone can scroll through this list and see that there are items out there people are willing to take gold for. This will ecourage sale over trade, because if theres things to spend gold on, you don't mind accepting gold for your extra items. Also like people are pointing out, you don't have to cross scheduals to make a transaction.

    Belsambar talks about merchanting being whiped out. He's right about this, I used to play a merchanting character. Merchanting was eliminated for a lot of reasons. We've talked about it over threads before and those reasons are not going to be adjusted back to the way they were. The right thing to do is implement an idea like this, that gives back to merchanting without affecting the previous changes.

    Playing a merchanting character was probably some of the most fun I had on TFC. The set and equipment I had built up was incredible, and was done without taking from anyone.... without killing, stealing, etc.... we aren't going to see 3dmg bucklers selling for 200k again, but I could see 3dmg leathers being worth up to 50k. Also theres considerable value here for someone that lost their corpse. They can sift through a list of available goods and replace the slots they need immediately.

    -Morgaine

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    Replace slots they need and get back into playing, levelling, pvp...maybe even straight buy their restrings back if they see it go out once everything's been looted and sorted. Also makes people WANT to random (as fines makes it semi prohibitive) because they could be listing decent gear they don't need others might and making gold from it to turn around and buy that piece of gear so and so has listed up for 2.5 mill...and it's exactly what they need (and you'd be more likely to generate that 2.5 mill in gold in goblin mines than re-random a duplicate...I want the experienced players to do the math in their head on that one hehehe...how many goblins?).

    ...and back to replacing what someone needs, if people are MORE able to acquire the items they need to go back out and do stuff, death becomes less of a big deal, and more of an 'Aw, man. I died. Well. Dang. Good thing I have 50k stashed on mish, I just have to visit Durgan and get some luck, wis, and con...Alright! Good to go! Let's go xp!' Which, let's face it...if we want to keep pvp as an active thing, if we want people to do risky stuff they might die from...they need to be able to re-gear, not by having to stop levelling and resource and locate and random a whole new set while raiding pit, but if they take the time to make sure they save money and resources (and don't need to do it every day), as they go, then they can just reequip, properly?

    As well, then it can take the FLI holding gear back to a more secondary function. They can help 'straighten' stats. They can stop holding lower power items and have more room for other stuff they might actually need to keep around more....like lights, and weapons. Who knows. Maybe they'd be able to just build BETTER stuff to hold onto so they have eq that inspires their followers to WANT to do following quests, provided they come up with one.
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

  4. #24

    Default

    I just love this idea so much I wanted to bump it again. Provided that you can only broker your 10 mish items then I see nothing but positive things from this brilliant idea. I personally would LOVE to be able to "consign list wrist" and "consign list strength" to fill in slots that would normally take WEEKS to fill with our current word of mouth system. then in turn being able to sell stuff like 2int 2wis for 3k would help that newbie out that happens to have some gold and needs that exact item.

  5. #25

    Default

    actually from my angle this idea seems so good that I would like to hear tynian's take on this in regards to it's chances of getting in and also if anyone can point out a reason why this is a bad idea I'd like to hear constructive criticism too. of all the recent ideas this seems to have the best potential to me

  6. #26

    Default

    I think this idea could create a whole new aspect of TFC...the "merchant" characters of old could be born again, rotating their inventory through Mish every few days to keep a good variance of items out there that may or may not be selling. I see a couple possible things though, maybe not issues or negatives, just something to be aware of. I can see "storage" characters being created for the sole purpose of storing items on Mish to put things up for sale. Again, not really a problem I don't think, as really what is it doing other than increasing the economy. If someone out there wants to have 5 different characters logging on occassionally that do nothing but move stock around on Mish, so be it. At least the inventory is moving instead of just sitting on the character, right? Better than the "storage" characters now that just keep the eq to themselves.....

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    I don't think item limits are so much a big deal. I would say consignment gold should be irrecoverable from Durgan once it's listed. If you're listing for 5million, and you lose 500k to list it, then you're gonna want to keep it listed till it sells, or you have a seller to trade it to. Likewise, you're not going to just do this for a 'storage char' as it gets cost prohibitive, and if it doesn't get cost prohibitive, you're going to gut yourself setting prices so low that people will decide they don't care if it's a little expensive, they'll buy it (or setting them so low you're 'storing them for cheap' and someone else buys your 5damage item for 5k because you were a cheap-arse and only wanted to pay 500 gold to store it. Sucks to be you. Awesome for them....or maybe that was your goal to begin with. Likewise, you try listing that for 500k, someone is probly gonna pay it, and now it circulates rather than sitting on a storage char, as Eathor said. A mill? Maybe not, but 100k is more than fines are, so I don't think it's so big a deal, as now you can just make sure you have a couple hundred k for fines and hold whatever ANYWAY for months of barely logging in.

    Might turn 'storage chars' into merchanting chars, but they'll still need to sell stuff occasionally, or gold, or have someone give them gold, in order to keep listing stuff if nothing sells.

    Likewise, it also increases the difference between people being 'nice' and helping gear a newbie, going 'here's 10k, there's Durgan, figure it out.' or just laughing at them (like evils might do, taking advantage of the weak's misfortune......). Likewise, it gives a reason for donation pit to be 'donation pit'.

    And as I've said in other threads (maybe even this one, I don't always read my old posts on a topic)...everyone on these forums plays TFC. Not everyone who plays TFC gets on forums, wants to, needs to, or will know how. As well, trying to sell/trade through forums can be a huge pain in the butt, and cause bad char sep.

    This allows a char to list it as themselves for sale, and keep the char sep of who has what for sale, rather than a generalized posting of 6 chars worth of stuff they've collected on forums. Likewise, the rules clearly state there is no eq swapping. Thus, if people are going to use Durgan to eq swap (you telling me you can't recognize your own listing? Really? C'mon now!), they DESERVE to get deathed/eaten, deleted, what have you, for it. It should be near impossible to do it 'accidentally'.

    I'm not saying it won't still be possible with someone letting a friend kill a char, and then sell goodies another char of the pk'd players needed to that char...and people can get away with that via IM clients, and only get caught if someone is watching, or cmdlogging....I'd think this would actually make that vastly easier to track if they're using Durgan for such.

    Thus leaving the only possibility for such is say, Pharuin gets killed by Kylor. (I use this because Pharuin has excellent char sep, ignoring that he claims he's not on forums, and if he is on forums in another form, that's only strengthening my case). Pharuin logs on as a low level char he's had on back-burner. Idly looks through Durgan's list, sees somethign that used to be his own gear as Pharuin, but is perhaps so generic he's not paying attention...or even if he IS completely aware, Kylor himself has no idea this is going on.

    In any case, one or two items can be excusable on god+'s discretion. If someone decides to buy a whole set from another char, doesn't that look slightly suspicious to ANYONE ELSE anyway, nevermind god+?
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

  8. #28

    Default

    Come off it bels, suggesting that eq swappers need a merchant application to cheat is ridiculous. They are already just giving eq to people specifically to let them die to the friend who wants the eq, they don't need a merchant for that. All you're doing is making this idea look dangerous unnecessarily

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    I was suggesting nothing of the sort Kylor. I was trying to point out how this would help -eliminate- such behaviors, as Mish storage and fines do not (yet were supposed to).

    How everyone gets the exact OPPOSITE of what I'm trying to say from what I write is beyond me. Is my terminology too far beyond most people or something, or are my posts just so long that people who play a text based game can't read them properly?
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belsambar View Post
    I was suggesting nothing of the sort Kylor. I was trying to point out how this would help -eliminate- such behaviors, as Mish storage and fines do not (yet were supposed to).

    How everyone gets the exact OPPOSITE of what I'm trying to say from what I write is beyond me. Is my terminology too far beyond most people or something, or are my posts just so long that people who play a text based game can't read them properly?
    Have you ever heard the phrase:
    "brevity is the soul of wit?"

    Just sayin'...

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    I'm sorry that I have no problem typing up long and elaborate explanations. I -am not- sorry if people can't read them properly, but hey, we play a freakin' text game. You should be able to read what's written. I try to flesh out as much detail to my explanations, as possible, so I -don't- get misconstrued.
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

  12. #32

    Default

    Im with belsambar on this one. Consignment should be seperate from mish storage but work in a way that could not be abused in an equipment hoarding fashion.


    From a merchanting prespective this is sort of how I would like to see the consignment office function.

    Inventory
    Any character would have the ability to list up to 15 or 20 items for consignment. This will allow merchanting characters to maintain a diverse inventory. This is necessary to stay in business.

    Taxation
    A listing fee totaling 10% of the asking price or 500gp, (whichever is more), would be charged up front. The item listing would have a duration of 4 weeks, but could be extended 2 weeks at a time for an additional 5% or 250gp, (whichever is more). The merchanting character would be allowed to adjust the price of his/her listings but must pay an additional charge if it were a price increase.

    An additional 10% charge will be collected upon the sale of an item. This brings durgans fee's up to 20% of the total cost (provided the item sells within 4 weeks), which is actually pretty accurate for consignment. To help balance the costs and limit over taxation of merchanting characters these funds should be retrieved and deposited directly into their bank accounts.

    Management
    It is the merchants responsibility to retrieve unsold items from durgan. This can be done at any time through the purchased duration, but characters will not receive a refund for retrieving an item early. Also, there is no refund for any time remaining on an item that is sold.
    Any item that is not retrieved on time would be sold in the mish auction format, starting at 500gp. Here, the neglectful merchanting character will be penalized, and receive merely 60% of the final sale price. The remaining 40% will be shared between durgan and mish. If the item does not sell, it should just vanish.

    Durgan will manage all sales annonymously. The listed format should be searchable by stats, materials, item types, spells, wearflags, etc... sort of based on the private bidding mish functions. Since Durgan handles all sales, he would be able to give any character the purchased item at that time, and then deposit funds -fee's into the merchants bank account. Maybe a transfer between bank accounts is best.

    -Morgaine
    Last edited by morgaine; February 25th, 2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason: extended duration

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    I like Morgaine's numbers, except that I would think about allowing 1wk after the consignment expiration for item retrieval. If not retrieved in that time frame the item should be auctioned as described but the merchant would receive nothing.

  14. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwyrdain View Post
    I like Morgaine's numbers, except that I would think about allowing 1wk after the consignment expiration for item retrieval. If not retrieved in that time frame the item should be auctioned as described but the merchant would receive nothing.
    I actually gave this suggestion some though when writing the post, but I leaned toward the previous, which would do more to increase mish auctions.
    I could get on board with this if it were preferred, .... and yes if it were so I would want the merchant to receive nothing. (One week is a long time to neglect your product).

    I had also considered decreasing the consignment duration, but felt two weeks isnt very long for a 20% charge. (So I edited the post to 4)

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    117
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    I would be happy either way, but if you did the one week retrieval period I suggested, items in such a state could be displayed in the consignment search as being "up for auction on a particular date/time" so people could actually bed on line to possibly pick up something cool on the cheap.

    (I'm sure this whole thing is getting too complicated, but it's still fun to dream.)

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    It's like ebay. If you're not paying attention, that item will get bought out as a buy it now on the cheap, and you lose it. Same with Craigslist. You want to be able to grab items on the cheap, be active, check Durgan regularly, and don't sit on your hands, go gold. When you snooze you lose. If people want to do an auction like that, hey, guess what. Collect your cool items, post a note, and announce an auction. Because if people are going to log in for something specific, the item is NOT going to go for cheap if it's that cool. If you need it and it's that good of a deal, so does someone else. If you have 50k, they probly have 75k. I don't see how you think that's going to help you to win. Meanwhile, if all you need is to be the first to look for it and have 35k...well, you win. You were most on the ball. Good for you.

    I like Morg's tailors to the initial idea. I really have to defer to Morg's greater experience at merchanting here, because I have very limited experience at it with TFC.

    I just know how to keep from getting ripped off lol
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

  17. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Belsambar View Post
    I just know how to keep from getting ripped off lol
    Sigh, my trusting nature brings difficulties to this one .... But with a merchanting character your reputation is everything and you can demand payment/items first from untrustworthy people.

  18. #38

    Default

    I like the idea as originally suggested
    Lord of the Crimson Sun
    http://lycron.com

  19. #39

    Default

    Morgaine - Thanks for feedback and thoughts. Can you expand on the reasoning for anonymous consignment sales? I originally envisioned it as being able to help with trades as well as gold transfers, and an interesting look at who has what - everyone loves to snoop one another's gear. Was curious what the case was for the anonymous approach.

    Taxation and Management - My preference is for longer consignment periods. Regardless of the length, I believe an important part to keeping it fun would be an on-login notification of consignments ending in the next week. Like purging and fines, nothing is less fun than unexpected taxation. This would help the folks who do not use it a lot and haven't simply written a trigger to check their consignments upon login.

    I like the ideas of a 60% split if your items is 'auctioned', the additional 10% at sale, and that items which did not sell on auction would vanish.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Real life? What's that?
    Posts
    1,003
    Rep Power
    40

    Default

    I think I know the point of the anonymous approach. It'll help prevent personal feelings, vendettas, and alignment concerns out of the marketplace itself. Maybe someone might simply not want people to know that they're the ones with something for sale.

    Likewise, it's not terribly hard for someone to list up what's up, and then run some sort of advertisement to the world at large that 'this is what's available' so people have a list of what's on Durgan from specific sellers. Honestly though, I'm greatly in favor of anonymous listings on the whole because with the community being as small as it is and the 'active' player base presently likewise being small, anything that removes the economy from the politics is likely a good thing, allowing gold and eq to flow between people without them worrying about thoughts such as 'I'd buy that, but Kylor is selling it, and I think he's a jerk' or 'I won't list items because a red might buy them'. Honestly, such behavior will still occur...but it can be greatly minimized if the LAST thing a person is worrying about is who the seller is. The more and more we can get things more towards 'I want that item, I need to go collect/beg/borrow/trade for x more gold before someone else buys it' the healthier it's going to be for the overall economy.

    Addition: Anonymous sales also prevent someone from NOT spending gold because 'Oh. Bel has that listed. He's a friend of mine, he'll just give it to me'. Yes, if you think that way, there's a good chance -I- would...but on the other hand...is that really serving either person very well? Takes away from the buyer's reason to get gold, and the sellers chance to make profit, and even funnier, c'mon, think of the irony in 'Hey Bel, lemme borrow 25k' / buy item / Durgan tells Belsambar, 'Congratulations! One of your items sold, you made 28933 gold profit!'
    Last edited by Belsambar; March 2nd, 2011 at 04:53 AM. Reason: Adding addition
    -=SuicideMage=-


    "Post quick-reply? I'm sorry, I am just completely incapable..."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •